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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:34 pm 
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Mr. Roboto

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:55 pm
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Location: Why? do you want to drop by?
From many years of experience, I have found that software only comes into play when competing with equally matched robots.

I have some sumos that use good old fashion brute force, and they are way underweight. So far I haven't come across other robots that used software to beat them. They may be smarter, but incapable of winning the match physically.

My wife has built a mini sumo that uses stealth technology, and every other robot can't see it to use software to win. The robot was designed to defeat IR sensors, and it does a great job at it. Software is useless against it.

From the looks of your robot and seeing what Dave and Bob have done, I see that your robot doesn't need any software to win (other than staying on the doyho). That is why I suggest that you move up a level to 3kg. Putting all your talents into making this robot better isn't going to make it better. With good edge sensors and a random motion sensor, it is already better than 90% of the robots out there, so you will never really be able to tell that it is truely a better robot.

Pete


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:05 pm 
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Roboteer

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:25 am
Posts: 704
Location: Toronto, Canada
You've never played in the CNRG master division then, were software makes all the diffrence and the other robots are all very competitive.

One big part of not going into 3Kg is the cost involved. An 800mAh Li-poly costs $30 while a suitable 3Kg 4000mAhLi-poly is $120 (or more).

I find the smaller size is a better test of my abilities, as Jon said.


Lee Szuba

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:43 pm 
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Roboteer

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:50 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Ontario, Canada
Pete Miles wrote:
From the looks of your robot and seeing what Dave and Bob have done, I see that your robot doesn't need any software to win (other than staying on the doyho). That is why I suggest that you move up a level to 3kg. Putting all your talents into making this robot better isn't going to make it better. With good edge sensors and a random motion sensor, it is already better than 90% of the robots out there, so you will never really be able to tell that it is truely a better robot.
Pete


Well, I'm not really interested in the bottom 90% of the field - that is the novice class. I'm interested in the top mini-sumos in Canada, and even North America. Right now Seeker 2 is one of the top mini-sumos in Canada, and I plan on building Seeker 2x to be able to beat it every time...

- Jon

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:57 am 
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Roboteer

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:50 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Ontario, Canada
Pete Miles wrote:
They way I look at it, the 3 kg sumo event is orders of magnitude more exciting to compete in. The crowds find it far more exciting to watch than mini sumo. For those people that spend a lot of time building super-class mini sumo's will get far more out of a 3 kg sumo for their efforts.


Its interesting - at the CNRG, the opposite is true. The 3kg class is pretty much a joke, with half a dozen robots that don't work very well. When I ran Seeker 3 last year, one of the Sharp IR sensors on the front broke off at the beginning, and it basically acted like a moronic robot, hopelessly running around the edge of the ring. It never went out, and that was enough to win third prize.

In Masters mini-sumo, behaviour like that gets you eliminated almost instantly.

As Lee (spacejunk) said, masters mini-sumo is incredibly competitive. Seeker 2 only won this year because of a particular software behaviour that I had programmed in - it is always looking for the opponent, even in the first second after launching it. They changed the start rules this year, and the second place robot (Slicer), which wasn't quite as flexible on the software front, got beat.

Jerome and I did a bunch of tests afterwards, and it is probable that his robot would have won had we had to start the "old" way. Seeker 2 is a bulldozer, and once it goes head to head with anything else the match is over, but its still vulnerable from the side or back.

- Jon

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:58 pm 
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Roboteer

Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:55 pm
Posts: 26
>>The 3kg class is pretty much a joke, with half a dozen robots that don't work very well
I won first place in the 3kg with my sumo Rhino. Even there I had some software issue. The program is not perfect and the robot was underweight because of the lipo battery. There where no competition in the 3kg.

video of Rhino are here
http://www.youtube.com/jeromedemers

In the master mini sumo there is a hell more competition!

>>They changed the start rules this year, and the second place robot (Slicer), which wasn't quite as flexible on the software front, got beat.
That is true :P I did not know they changed the rules. Even there, Seeker2 has more momentum when he hits me.


>>Jerome and I did a bunch of tests afterwards, and it is probable that his robot would have won had we had to start the "old" way. Seeker 2 is a bulldozer, and once it goes head to head with anything else the match is over, but its still vulnerable from the side or back.

Seeker2 is laking of side sensor. But hey, he was build 5 years ago!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcgibHreTOE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJFalobmxKk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVs9ncUREzE

>>I see that your robot doesn't need any software to win (other than staying on the doyho). With good edge sensors and a random motion sensor, it is already better than 90% of the robots out there, so you will never really be able to tell that it is truely a better robot.

I have to agree with this comment. At the speed it will move, you could go blind like blackwidow and win. But here in Canada they are more then one robot moving fast. I will also have attack strategie. I really can't wait to 2008!

Hey Pete, I love you book! One of the best robotics book I own! I truelly love it and still use it for reference. I would love to see some detail pictures of your robots and your wife stealth minisumo. I already seen some but I want more! :P I even saw the one in servo magazine.


Image

Image

Is one 8.4V battery enough? Do you change it a lot?

This will be mine, I already have the mechanic all done, wheels are machined and I have already test drive this beast! I can push 30lbs! I order new motors to push less and be FAST FAST FAST!!!

Image
Image

The spec are top secret!

I am presently cleaning my desk ( after my room ) to clear my mind and work on my mini sumo. I have way to many project right now. One at the time!

It will also be a good time to upload other videos on youtube and a bunch of pictures! A other "to-do-list"!

good bye!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:02 pm 
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Roboteer

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:25 am
Posts: 704
Location: Toronto, Canada
Very interesting... :D

_________________
When in doubt, go with your first instinct.
Get that mistake out of the way.

Spacejunk


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:17 pm 
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Roboteer

Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:55 pm
Posts: 26
You better be ready with your 3kg Space Junk!! It is going to ROCK!

You should build a other 3 kg!

Come on!

Jon will have seeker3 back on the ring!
I will have my new one "Pegasus"!
The guys from ETS will there killer 3kg sumo "Phsycho"!

We need more!

We could get other 3kg from around the world to be shipped to us! Hey Pete!

Interesting! :D :D

ciao!!

J-


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:57 pm 
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Roboteer

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:25 am
Posts: 704
Location: Toronto, Canada
My 3kg kinda sucks, but whatever. It was my first robot.

_________________
When in doubt, go with your first instinct.
Get that mistake out of the way.

Spacejunk


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:12 pm 
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Roboteer

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:50 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Ontario, Canada
To get this topic back on track...

I got my new PCBs today... :D

Image

http://www.huv.com/miniSumo/seeker2x/PCB-01.jpg

- Jon

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:16 pm 
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Mr. Roboto

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Why? do you want to drop by?
Dave, where do you get your circuit boards made? Are they expensive to have made? All of my circuits are are made using the old fashion basic point to point wiring with 30 gage wires.

As to the earlier question reguarding recharging the 8.4V batteries often on my 3kg batteries. Per the Japanese rules on 3kg sumo, you have 30 seconds between each match to get your robot ready. So my design takes that into account. I can swap out batteries in a heart beat. Now in reality, I rarely have to change the batteries. One full charge will get me through a tournament.

Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:52 pm 
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Roboteer

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:50 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Ontario, Canada
Its Jon, not Dave (Dave is my brother)...

I get my boards done at APCircuits in Calgary.

Seeker 2 has point-to-point wiring, but I decided I really wanted a more finished look and more reliable electronics with this robot.

- Jon

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:26 pm 
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Mr. Roboto

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Why? do you want to drop by?
Sorry Jon,

So tell me, the robots that Dave brings down to the Robothon, are they his or is he bringing yours to bring havoc on our robots?

Pete


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:14 pm 
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Roboteer

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:50 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Ontario, Canada
Generally the robots he brings are his own. I think last year he brought a couple from Bob Cook, including Thin Man.

I'll have to see about sending mine down - it really depends on when Robothon is in relation to the CNRG, which is my main event. This year I think we're aiming for early/mid November, so if Robothon is in September again, it might be doable...

- Jon

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:25 am 
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Roboteer

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:50 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Ontario, Canada
Finally got some more work done on Seeker 2x...

Image

http://www.huv.com/miniSumo/seeker2x/Seeker2x-09.jpg

I have the main board populated, and all the sensors are working. I've got the debug menu written, and can test all the sensors and the motors. I've also got the main finite state machine started, with the first few states programmed. Having a 7-segment LED is pretty cool - I can count down, and do neat patterns, and so on.

- Jon

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:05 pm 
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Robot Guru
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 8:21 pm
Posts: 3868
Location: Central Coast, CA, USA
Nice job on the Seeker Jon!

I notice that you are apparently not using encoders on your servos. Do you do any PWM control of them?

I'm aiming at a slightly larger 'bot, might even be the appropriate size for a Micromouse. But the end-to-end length of motors and encoders may make that impossible.

Alan KM6VV

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